Posts by Rod P

40

20 years ago..a talk concerning field service..sisters crying..eyes opened

by confusedjw in

well i can't recall now which public talks it was - one of my first - and it dealt with field service / preaching.

so i thought i would interview several people in the congregation about service and their thoughts and feelings on the subject, expecting something very different than what i got.

to my shock (i was an over zealous young buck who thought the sun rose and set on the wt) three sisters burst into tears as they told about their feelings of inadequacy and guilt over field service.

Rod P

Terry,

That was a great point! Oh those poor householders. And their eternal salvation depends on the effectiveness of the JW at the door?

I did field service long before I got baptized. The week after baptism, I went pioneering for a month, being on vacation from my Bank employment. Thoroughly enjoyed talking with all the Mormons and the Mennonites. Maybe I was lucky in that the territories I spent most of my time in were rural folks and farmers, and most of them loved to discuss things. I could usually hold my own with the best of them, but then there were those who really knew their Bibles, and they asked some real stumpers that got me questioning some of the JW teachings. I kind of left them simmering on the back burner of my mind for a period of time, until the day came where I really had to start questioning the whole JW system.

When I first started having some serious doubts about JW teachings, then I began feeling nervous about going door-to-door. Here I was preaching to people I did not know about the "Truth" which I was less than sure was the "truth". Who am I to convert the world to something I could not totally believe in?

One of the things that really affected me was the day we went out in field service in a farming community. We came to this one farm in our car pool, and it was my turn to knock on the door (with one companion by my side). This guy loathed JW's; I mean there was a kind of rage emanating from his eyes and disposition. Somewhere in the brief conversation he mentioned "Blood", and I tried to show him the "scriptural basis" for that teaching. He cut the conversation off, but it seemed more from anger than indifference. We walked back to the car, and got in, ready to drive away.

Then we saw this same guy stomp out of his house, jump into his truck that was parked about 30 feet from where we were. He hastily put his truck in reverse and backed up, as if to turn his truck around to leave. He couldn't get out of there fast enough, or so it seemed. What he did not realize was that his little boy (about 3 or 4 years of age) was playing in the dirt right behind the back wheel of the truck. And, of course, he ran over his own son, as the little boy let out a scream. The farmer jumped out of his truck, picked up his son, jumped back into the truck, and tore off out of the farmyard, tires spinning. I would imagine he was at that point rushing to the nearest hospital.

After that, I never felt the same about Field Service again. All I could think was that I was a kind of trigger or catalyst in that farmer's mind that put him into an angry state that caused him to furn over his little boy. It haunts me to this day!

So on Terry's point, what would the great God Jehovah do with the eternal salvation of this man, who was not receptive to my JW message?

Rod P.

24

I was wrong, CT Russell was something of a prophet after all...

by jaffacake in

jw
friends

i am reading studies in the scriptures (1911) thy kingdom come..on page 145 ct russell describes what is wrong with religions of his day and their sunday schools & bible studies, ie people belong to earthly religions or organisations.

was he describing other sects of his day, or did he forsee what his bible students would eventually become?

methods hinder real growth in knowledge of truth...guarded, pointed questions, with prepared answers and no time left for the bible hungry student...bible study, skilfully directed, so that he may get no new ideas...brief sessions [one hour] more agreeable than bible study...they are led to feel they have performed a duty, and a sacrifice.

Rod P

Put yourself in Russell's shoes. You are studying the Bible with Organized Religion. You start reading the Bible on your own and looking things up in a giant concordance, comparing what these religions are teaching with what scriptural comparisons seem to be revealing. You begin to question and challenge what these religions are preaching and teaching.

In short, Russell was guilty of Independent Thought.

Russell breaks away from Organized Religion and sets up his own movement, and then pronounces God's blessings and guidance on himself and his little group of International Bible Students with their little independent chapters.

In that context, and in that environment at that time, Russell the maverick had to think things on his own. There would have been nothing more important and precious to him that to have that freedom of thought and religion that the founding fathers of the United States of America enshrined in their Constitution.

Now fast forward to World War !, and to the time when Russell dies. Rutherford takes over the empire, and he does this by vote of the shareholders. He got them to side with him, so as to ensure his successorship to Russell. However, there were quite a few who did not like the way Rutherford did business. Rutherford had these Russelite Loyalists expunged from the Organization, and branded them as the "Wicked and Evil Slave Class". (They continue on to this day as a separate group, and, in fact, have available online all of the books and publications of Charles Taze Russell.)

Now it was Rutherford who created an Organization of "Group Think", and being organization-minded. He even had a spy system where he would have one brother watching the behavior of another brother, recorded all this in a file dossier, so that he could keep tabs on everyone, and control and weed out the independent types. William Schnell, who spent many years with the JW's wrote a book "Thirty Years a Watchtower Slave", in which he told at great length how this system worked, and how it was used on him and others. Schnell started out in Germany in the Second World War. The German people were great at Organization, and could be easily controlled. So much of what Rutherford instituted was first tried out and experimented with in Germany, and when a good model was established, he put things in place Organization wide. Schnell immigrated to the USA and discovered many of the things that were established in Germany were now being set up in the USA. That's how he discovered how Rutherford really worked.

Nathan H. Knorr excelled as a good Administrator, a good Organization Man. This served him well over the years, but it also perpetuated and etched in stone the policies and teachings that were imposed on the R & F JW's.

This all became part and parcel of the kind of behavioral programming and blind, unquestioning loyalty of the JW followers. And that's the way this Cultic Organization operates to this very day. Except now it has become much worse, because the GB at the top is under such attack and vulnerability that it reminds me of Hitler and his coherts in the final days of the War when they hid in this bunker until the bitter end, in a kind of seige mentality. And in the middle of the battle that is all around them, they are calling upon all of the remaining JW's to get out there and fight the good fight for Jehovah and their eternal life. Yours is not to question why; yours is but to do or die! Be a good soldier. And you all better walk in single step, and don't get out of line, or else!

Yes, Russell would turn over in his grave if he saw what he started has now become.

Whatever happened to "Jesus Christ is the same today, yesterday and forever"?

Rod P.

57

How Does the Governing Body Extend its Control Over the Many Organizations?

by frankiespeakin in

jw
friends

how does the governing body extend its control over the many organizations that they made back in the year 2000 ?.

i think they have some type of by-laws in these corparations where they are to be in subjection to the wishes of the gb.. also thier may be some stipulations that the controlling members of each seperate corperation must be in good standing and can not function in any capacity if they are disfellowshipped.

thus the gb can alway use thier unlimited power to df to bring members in line or remove them if the gb feel threated.. i would think that the by-laws of these seperate entities are somewhat similar to the by-laws that form the congregation corperations in order for the congregation to be a legal corperation that can own property, where the by-laws state that they must remain in subjection to the gb.

Rod P

Well, I think it may well depend on the legal relationship amongst the respective corporations. By that I mean, what exactly are each of the Shareholdings. Who are the shareholders of each of these companies? If they are all different relative to each other, then they would be dealing at "arm's length" from each other. On the other hand, if they are wholly-owned subsidiaries of a parent corporation that is owned and controlled by the members of the Governing Body, then the GB would be in a position to totally control these other corporations. I wish I knew more about the actual share structure because that give us a pretty darn good picture of who really is in control of what.

A corporation is a separate "Person" in law. You cannot make the by-laws of one corporation rule over another corporation. But you can produce resolutions in the minute book of a company that would authorize that company to enter into (an) agreement(s) with another corporation that sets out the terms and conditions that two companies agree to operate or conduct business, etc. between them, and also to ratify any such agreement that has been entered into. Therefore, it would be quite interesting to see what agreements by, between and amongst the relevant corporations of this Corporate Group.

Now I suspect that the Shares may well be issued to one or more associated or related corporations for precisely the reason that if the shareholders were individuals, and one or more of them apostacized or died.

If a death was involved, then the shares become part of that person's estate, at which point the beneficiaries of that estate may inherit these shares, unless they were sold to another party. This would have the serious potential to change the effective control of that corporation, which could theoretically have an adverse affect on the relationship of that corporation to the GB in the future. Unless, of course, there was in place a Shareholder Buy-Sell Agreement with the right of first refusal whereby the existing shareholders could buy out the deceased's shares, thus protecting the control of the corporation and its policies, thereby perpetuating and protecting existing relationships with the GB.

If apostasy and disfellowshipment were involved, then existing shareholders would have on their hands a "hostile shareholder". I would think that if the shares were issued to individuals, that again, there would be a Shareholder Buy-Sell Agreement that would make provision for existing shareholders to buy out the emerging hostile shareholder in the event of disfellowshipment. That way they could still control the corporate destiny, and could not be held hostage by a dissident shareholder.

For the above reasons, I suspect that the shares are issued to corporations in some kind of hierarchy that either directly or indirectly effectively gives control to the GB. The reason I am less than certain about this kind of scenario has to do with the fact that if all these corporations are owned and controlled by one parent corporation owned and controlled by an entity owned and controlled by the GB, then whatever happens to the Parentco could adversely affect the company subsidiaries.

(I am aware that the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society is a whole other matter, which I understand has about 500 shareholders and is the publishing company that has been around for most of the JW history.)

It would be helpful if anyone on this forum could shed some light on the corporate structures that are in place. I would think that all these corporations are a matter of public record.

Rod P.

26

How many of you want to be resurrected? (I am not judging here! Just a Q!)

by inquirer in

jw
friends

this is in no way meant to judge people, but sometimes i think about this issue a lot.

i think about famoust people and think "hmmm, will tom cruise be there in paradise?

arnold schartzenegger?

Rod P

Qcmbr,

I am not sure what you mean by "if they didn't want to be resurrected, even if only as an intellectual exercise".

As I see it, it is not a question of whether one wants to be resurrected or not. Rather it is a question of whether the notion of Annhilation and Resurrection can logically fit. IMO they do not. There is no question in my mind that I DO want to be resurrected. I was speaking rhetorically in terms of questioning the JW rationale.

I am high on life and eternity!

Rod P.

26

How many of you want to be resurrected? (I am not judging here! Just a Q!)

by inquirer in

jw
friends

this is in no way meant to judge people, but sometimes i think about this issue a lot.

i think about famoust people and think "hmmm, will tom cruise be there in paradise?

arnold schartzenegger?

Rod P

Inquirer,

Well, it depends what you mean by "resurrected". If you mean the JW version, then I couldn't care less. Why? Well, acccording to the Watchtower Society, when you're dead, you're dead. You are a living soul comprising a physical body made of the "dust of the earth" and you have a "spirit" which means "the breathe of life". When you die, your body goes back to the earth, and your "breathe of life" goes back to the god who gave it (Jehovah). In other words, you simply go out of existence.

Now, in the resurrection JW style, Jehovah raises up a new body and instills in it the "breathe of life". And what is it that is you? Well, apparently Jehovah has this "perfect recollection" of all that was you while you were alive. He remembers all of your thoughts and feelings and memories and experiences while you lived. This is what He installs into this new body, and voila! "You" have just been resurrected! Basically this would amount to a kind of "software program" that is virtually all that was you, that Jehovah would install in your brain.

Now stand back and take a good look at what just happened here. Is that really you? Or is this merely a duplicate of you? Looks to me like you just got cloned. Remember, you went out of existence when you died. There was no more "You". So there is no such thing as "You" coming back to life. God can only make a new CLONE or DUPLICATE of you.

Therefore, why should you and I even care if we get "resurrected" or not. Let's say I do not qualify to get resurrected cuz I was just too bad! Then I die, and here I am in this "eternal sleep". I just don't wake up, and my body gets eaten up by the worms and the maggots, and eventually becomes merged with the elements of the earth. The "memory" of what was "ME" simply becomes non-existent. Oblvion! At that point, I know nothing, am aware of nothing, and I become forgotten. So what! Why should or would I care about anything after that. On the other hand, if I did get resurrected, is that really ME that got resurrected? Absolutely not. The best that Jehovah could do is manufacture this clone. Big deal! Why should I care? What difference does it make.

So therefore, the notion of "Soul Sleep" or "Total Annihilation" just does not fit, and is not logical in the context of the Resurrection as defined by the JW's.

On the other hand, suppose when you die, the "Spirit Essence" that is YOU, inhabits your body while you are alive, but leaves your body at death and goes somewhere else. Then, if the Resurrection is true, God raises up a new body, and your Spirit that is the conscious you and has a continuity of existence and awareness and memory of your whole life, gets united with this new body and you become resurrected. Now in that situation, I would really want to be resurrected. I would care what happened to me and my eternal destiny. That makes much more sense to me than the JW version.

Rod P.

47

what proves jw's aren't true?

by jwfacts in

i am inactive and it took years of doubt to convince myself the jw's arent true.

i started doubting because i hated the idea that jehovah would kill 6 billion non-jw's.

the thing now that is the most important proof for me is that until 1954 jw's worshipped jesus and it is still in the watchtower charter, even though you now get disfellowshipped for worshipping jesus.

Rod P

It started out in field service. I had talked with many people who were very knowledgeable about the Bible. They challenged the teachings of Jehovah's Witnesses from all angles and directions. This began to plant little seeds in my brain that something is not quite right here. If the Bible had the Truth, and the Society made that Truth plain, then why were there so many reasonable alternative interpretations about the same passages of scripture. To me, that meant the Bible was a problem here. But that also made me ask the question "Who has the infallibly correct understanding of the Bible, so that I could be confident in the interpretations and explanations being given.

This opened me up to alternative thinking. The Watchtower Society/Governing Body claimed to be the only Organization on this earth who was teaching the real truth from the Bible. You could not understand the Bible without the inspired guidance of the Society. But the Catholics claimed that only they had the authority to act and speak in the name of God. Their stamp of authenticity was "Thou art Peter, and upon this Rock I will build my Church." Apostolic succession carried on from the time of Peter until now. "And the gates of Hell would not prevail against my (Jesus') Church". The head of the Church would be given the infallible direction of the Holy Spirit, and when the First Bishop (Pope) stands in his official capacity as head of the Church, he would be given such protection. Therefore, you could not understand the Bible without the Catholic Church, with the Pope as its head. Then along came the Mormons. They likewise claimed that they "believed the Bible to be the Word of God insofar as it was correctly translated." But there was a Great Apostasy- a falling away from the Church and of the Church. The Authority to act in the name of God, namely the Priesthood of God, was removed from the earth until the latter days, when it was purportedly restored once again to the earth, thru the person of Joseph Smith, and those than came after him. He became Prophet, Seer and Revelator, the instrument thru which the fulness of the gospel was restored and revealed. In the end I converted to Mormonism. The JW's simply did not have any evidence or basis to claim they had the Authority to speak in God's name, or to interpret the scriptures. There was absolutely nothing in terms of evidence that could demonstrate that they and they alone fit the profile "by their fruits you will know my disciples.", for there were many examples of people outside the JW's that fit this description better than the JW's did.

In the final analysis, "Authority to act in the name of God" was the cardinal issue, the deciding issue about which Church or Religion was right, and it certainly was not the Governing Body of JW's. Not their history, not their doctrinal interpretations and not their fruits. It was entirely without foundation.

I hasten to add, that while I converted to Mormonism, it was much later that I discovered many lies and cover-ups and rewriting of their history and scriptures that caused me to question and challenge their authority and teachings as well. In many respects, this was even worse than the JW's because of the complexity and cover-ups.

Anyway, some of the things that caused me to have serious doubts about JW's while I was still one of them included the Soul Doctrine and also the change in teachings about Subjection to the Superior Authorities.

With the Soul Doctrine, notwithstanding the over 6000 scriptures they claimed disproved the notion that we do not have a soul or spirit that lives on after death, I found that they were interpreting things out of contexr. The scriptures they cited were not doctrinal in nature, but rather in the Hebrew and Greek were merely speaking of man as a living soul or being, which was subject to hunger, thirst, emotions, death, etc, and had no preeminence over the beasts. As one dieth, so dieth the other. The soul that sins shall die.....And so on. These have no bearing on the doctrinal question about the nature of the soul. Other religious scholars continually pointed this out with some pretty convincing and credible arguments. Now, it does not matter if you are an atheist, an agnostic, an evolutionist or whatever. You do not have to accept the notion that you have a spirit that lives on after death. The main thrust of my argument here is that the JW's have relied entirely upon the scriptures from the Bible to justify their teachings about the soul. But they have relied on scriptures that simply have nothing to do with the doctrinal argument. There are a few scriptures, however, that do raise some serious doctrinal questions about the Soul. For example "Do not be in fear of he who can kill the body but cannot kill the soul..."

From the standpoint of logic, it simply did not make sense to me that according to Watchtower teaching, when we are dead, we are dead. But then in the resurrection we are brought back to life. How? God is supposed to raise up a whole new body, into which He implants all that was "You" or "Me" while we were alive in mortality. God has this "perfect recollection" of your entire personality, and all your life experiences while you lived, and this is what God puts into that "resurrected body". But this is NOT YOU. This is only a duplicate of You. It is your clone. So once you die and go out of existence, what do you care if you get resurrected into the New World or not? To me, this was proof that the JW's cannot be true.

I believe it was around 1963 when they came out with this new booklet, which they presented at an Assembly: "The Word, Who is He According to John?" This article also appeared in the Watchtower around that time. In it was a whole new interpretation of what the Bible in the Book of John, meant by the "Superior Authorities". During the Second World War, the JW's were taught that the "Higher Powers" (King James Version) or the "Superior Authorities (NWT) were Jehovah God and Christ Jesus. These were the ones the true Witnesses of Jehovah owed their allegiances to, and not the Earthly Governments and Rulers. With this new release, they came to the understanding that the scriptures needed to be interpreted in a "new light', namely that the Earthly Governments and Rulers were, in fact, the Higher Powers or Superior Authorities. But you see, the older interpretation was the basis that the male JW's went to jail for refusing to go to war in obedience to their subjection to the Higher Powers. The governments brought in biblical scholars to inform the JW's that they were misinterpreting their scriptures upon which they based their argument for not going to war. But these sincere JW's, following the leadership and interpretation of the Governing Body, said that the clergy were all wrong, they did not know the true meaning of the Bible, and the Society did, so they will go to jail in obedience to their allegiance to Jehovah and Christ Jesus. Now here we were in 1963, for the first time acknowledging that the clergy were right in their interpretation of those particular scriptures after all. The implication is that the JW's went to jail on the basis of an erroneous interpretation of the scriptures. Now, the article went on to say from other scriptures that this was a "relative subjection" rather than an "absolute subjection" and so when a law of man comes into conflict with a law of God, then a JW still must "obey God as ruler rather than men." But, you see, the religionist leaders have never disagreed with that principle. Just the erroneous interpretations of the JW's on quite a number of scriptures which they have used to justify their positions on many issues, but which are, in fact, no justification at all. The point is, they are simple not right or true.

Since all that, I have encountered dozens of other examples and topics which need to be questioned and challenged. But that is another story!

Rod P.

17

Tongue Twisters!!!

by PaulJ in

i like tongue twisters.

do you have any favourites?

mine are-.

Rod P

Rubber baby buggy bumpers.

Seven sound soldiers.

A big black bug bit a big black bear and the big black bear bled blood.

Rod P.

293

A newbie's impression on this board, pros and cons

by smelly onions in

cons.

i don't know who is scarier, the jw's or some people on this board.

man, r u guys bitter?

Rod P

Smelly,

I have read all of the posts on this thread, and agree with and certainly empathize with most all of them. I am glad to see that you were willing to back-track on a number of your presumptuous opening remarks, and then later appeared to be more willing to listen to reason and relate to some of the abuses that people have suffered at the hands of the JW Organization. These abuses and injustices were the direct result, not just of policies and teachings emanating from the top echelon of that Organization. They were also the result of those leaders in position of power and influence over the Rank and File, who abused that authority by inflicting their base desires upon the helpless. After this was exposed, JW Officialdom complicitly tried to sanction, condone, tolerate and cover-up such felonious behavior in order to protect its questionable precious reputation as Jehovah God's True Channel. Fortunately, in time, this all became high profile media events, which exposed these goings on, so that now they are forced to deal with it by turning a lot of these guys in to the legal authorities. And I say that it is high time they did!

There is one thing, though, that I think needs to be brought out more fully, or at least put under the spotlight for a few minutes here:

It's about human imperfection. Yes, we all have it, and since all institutions are made up of human beings, therefore they are subject to that same imperfection. That implies that we should be tolerant and understanding if an Organization makes mistakes.

I would be willing to grant this tolerance and understanding to the Watchtower Society/Governing Body IF they practiced this themselves. The problem is, they have shown time and time again that they are NOT tolerant or understanding. On the contrary, they are one of the most intolerant on the planet, completely devoid of empathy, patience, understanding and love, and choose instead the antithesis of this in a way that is nothing less than fanatical.

They have set themselves up as the one right religion on planet earth. They make unsubstantiated claims to being God's Sole Channel of Communication between God and Man. They and they alone possess the "TRUTH", while everyone else is wrong. Yet they have had to make many changes to their teachings and interpretations and prophetic dates, which they then pronounced as "new truth", for the light is getting brighter and brighter. Yet some of their amendments actually brought them into total alignment and agreement with what other Churches have been teaching all along. In other words, Satan's worldwide empire of false religions has been teaching truths from the Bible that the Society/Governing Body discovered much later, which they then announced as "new truth". How is it that God's sole channel of communication has been so much farther behind those Churches of Satan, and is only now beginning to "catch up" with them?

In their audacity of claiming to be right, while everyone else is wrong, they have the effrontery, the nerve to condemn and disfellowship anyone who dares to question or doubt any of their teachings. You are, in their eyes, "guilty of independent thought". That is considered "apostate thinking" and is simply not tolerated. The penalty is disfellowshipment, and shunning is the result. It is this policy of shunning that literally rips families apart and destroys lives. It is an intolerance that rivals the intolerance of the Catholic Church of the middle ages at the height of their Inquisition. Yet the Society/Governing Body loudly condemns the lack of tolerance of the Catholic Church, while reserving the right to exercise the same intolerance towards its own JW membership. That is hypocrisy of the highest order. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black! That is why I personally hold the Watchtower Society/Governing Body personally responsible for what THEY HAVE DONE AND CONTINUE TO DO TO OTHERS in the name of truth and their God Jehovah. They are the ones who are responsible for this teaching and this policy, and all of the consequences they have set into motion in the lives of so many thousands of individuals over the years.

I for one, will not tolerate their Narrow-Minded, Dogmatic, Judgmental, and Audacious Intolerance. Who do they think they are, anyway? Do they really think they have some special, favorite position and relationship with God before every other man and woman on earth? Yes, unfortunately, that IS how they see themselves, as reflected in their teachings.

So yes, we here who are responsible for our own actions, need to accept that responsibility over our own lives. However, it is equally true that the Society/Governing Body must also take responsibility for the heartbreak and pain that they have inflicted on the members of their own flock over the years. They are responsible for the things that they teach. They are responsible for their rules and punishments that they dictate and dish out behind their veil of anonymity, wreaking so much pain and havoc on countless lives. They are responsible for the thousands of deaths they have been instrumental in causing as a direct result of their doctrine on blood transfusions. They are responsible for teaching their sincere followers so many different prophetic dates, creating the impression that the world is about to end, and the Big A is just around the corner, so don't bother getting a real education, or pursue a career, or plan for a retirement fund. And now there are many thousands of families who have to live with the fact that their retirement years are upon them, and they will have to live in relative poverty, all because they believed in this Organization that steered them all wrong, creating false expectations combined with poor advice. The list of indictments could literally go on and on. I just want you to see that it is time you held this JW Organization responsible for the things that they created and taught and perpetuated, and the negative and serious impacts they have had on people's lives as a result. Open your eyes and see!

Rod P.

82

Are you an Irritating Bastard?

by gumby in

how many of you ex witnesses out there became irritating bastards to family and friends when you left the organisation?

did you push your believing mate right out the door with your verbal assaults?

did you send out a long letter to all of your witness family and friends telling them what a lying cult the watchtower organisation is?

Rod P

Well Gumby, I have seen some of your "Irritating Bastard" tendencies come out on quite a number of threads this past several months, especially your own. But then, after awhile, it began to sink in, that your bark is bigger than your bite. You just like bein' bad, you ol' grouch! Every time I read one of your rants or put-downs, I can just see you grinnin' from ear to ear. Gotcha!

You need to get one of those Clint Eastwood Magnum 45's, and every time you get the goat of another Poster (you can tell by how they react to you), put another notch on your 45.

Anyway, when I was a good little blind and obedient JW, happily and newly married in da 'troof, I turned Mormon. This was a direct result of doing field service, and my wife also introducing me to the very fellow that was the most influential in convincing me on Mormonism, and who also baptized me into Mormonism. (I'm sure my (ex-)wife rues the day she ever introduced me to him.)

Mine was an intellectual problem, which then became a faith problem, which then resulted in Apostasy and Disfellowshipping.

I always find it amusing that when you exchange one religion for another, the "One" you leave is condemning you to eternal death, while the "Other One" is giving you God's eternal blessings for seeing the "Truth". Must be kinda confusing for poor ol' God up there, looking down on us humans, one condemning in His Name, while the other Blessing in His Name.

Now upon experiencing DF and the Shunning that followed, I had mixed feelings. I was angry over the Shunning policy, which I considered to be anti-Biblical and anti-Christian. At the same time, I was the one that had created this mess by leaving the JW religion, and joining the Mormons, thereby causing the marriage to be torn in two, right down the middle. It would have been better if I had just faded away into inactivity, than to do what I did in my crusading and Godly conversion mentality. But no, I had to jump from the frying pan into the fire. There was nothing luke warm about me. I was doin' all this for God and Truth! What could possibly be wrong or bad about that....? (Plenty!!!!!)

So anyway, partly because of Self-Blame, I took the position of sympathy and empathy and understanding towards my wife and her family. If I was just patient and kind and tolerant, etc. then by example they might see the light. The other reason was that now that I was Mormon, and of course, I had the Truth, and the JW's didn't, then I needed to set the example as the True Christian. And so I respected my wife's position of no talking about anything spiritual in accordance with their rules. I drove her and out kids to their JW meetings, and let them have home Bible studies, and all that. I was a model citizen in this department, at least for a time.

Then I discovered things that were going on behind my back. Such as, my wife going to the grade one teacher of our oldest daughter, and telling the school system to keep our daughter out of any school functions that are against her religion (flag saluting, singing national anthem, Christmas, Halloween and Easter,etc.). No asking, no discussing, no sharing. Just sneaking around about it, and putting things in place in a devious manner in the name of Jehovah and da "troof". I was livid, and disgusted, and had enough. No more Mr. Nice Guy! Look where "being nice" had got me. So I got really pro-active, and went to the school authorities and set things in motion to reverse everything my wife had schemed and manipulated without my knowledge. This was not a marriage; this was spiritual warfare, and it was time to do battle. It also resulted in our separation, and eventual divorce.

Later we got divorced, she remarried and so did I. So there I was a happy Mormon, who married a nice Mormon girl, and later, a couple more kids. Then I discovered a whole pile of crap about Mormonism, and once again a spiritual crisis in the making, which likewise ended up in leaving the religion, and subsequently divorce. This last go around was about 25 years ago, and I have never joined another church or religion since. The kids are all grown up and living their own lives.

Anyway, I am happy to be out of "Organized Religion" of any kind, and am happy and content to be free, pursuing spiritual matters on my own terms without a bunch of straight-jacket rules and regulations, doctrines and dogmas, and do not have to worry about lies and cover-ups, secrecies and hidden agendas that religions often become involved with as self-preservation tactics. I just don't trust them! The other thing is, when it comes to money, these religions are very good at getting you to part with your hard-earned income. They can be pretty blatant and obvious at times, but also can be quite devious and secretive on financial matters, making you wonder "What has this got to do with God and Spirituality?"

Now I am not one to try to convert someone to my own brand of belief or spirituality, even though I am willing to share my respective points of view on different topics. (That's what this forum is about, isn't it.)

But at the same time, I notice on other threads around here, that there are a number of 'postate activities going on that are aimed at the JW's, and which have their own kind of missionary zeal. And, in this regard, I cannot help but share in that enthusiasm.

For example, one has to do with writing little messages on post cards and sending them to certain JW "friends" or acquaintances. Little things, like raising a question here and there about some of the dubious or inconsistent things the GB is involved with at the top (eg. UN, changing doctrines, weird beliefs long forgotten, etc.) This is about planting little seeds in the minds of JW's that could cause them to pause and to question just what it is that they are following. This could motivate them to start questioning and searching for answers, etc. I think that is a good thing.

This is not about converting them to another belief system. It is, rather, getting them to question things, getting out of their "comfortable pews" and to start thinking a little for themselves, instead of just blindly following a system of religion. That is a whole different ball game than trying to convert them to another system. They are still left the freedom to decide for themselves what it is that they do believe, or what they may ultimately want to replace the failing JW belief system with.

There are two main reasons why I think it is good for us 'postates to participate in "chipping away at the JW armour". The first is that the GB at the top has a most destructive policy on blood transfusions. Thousands of people, including innocent children, have died, or been allowed to die, over this unscriptural and bogus doctrine. It, IMHO, should not be allowed to remain unchallenged, or it will just go on and on and on, with more people continuing to die needlessly. The second is this terrible practice of Shunning that is wreaking untold harm and damage on so many individuals and families and marriages. It is a Crime, in my books, and needs to be challenged at every turn. The R& F JW's need a good shaking, and the GB needs a good shake-up, exposing them for what they are. Enough is quite enough already!

So maybe this peace-loving guy is a late bloomer, by turning into another one of those "irritating bastards" LOL

Rod P.

23

Elder Save All the Mailing Addresses and Phone# of the Friends You Can Get!

by frankiespeakin in

jw
friends

.

i will post more later, got to go back to work right now.

Rod P

Rebel8,

I don't think you have to like the persons to send JW's you know Post Cards.

We are trying to plant little seeds in the minds of any JW. Get them thinking. Get them asking questions. This may set up little "centers of influence" interacting with other fellow JW's. (I tell you, you tell someone else, that person tells someone else, and so on.)

Imagine a million or so JW's sitting in their Kingdom Hall seats, feeling uncomfortable about these little messages- those nagging little questions that begin to cause doubts to surface, which causes them to question their own respective faith, and then start to really investigate things. The whole idea sends tingles down my spine!

You can count the seeds in an apple, but can you count the apples in a seed?

Rod P.